Our guest Todd Nesloney is the Director of Culture and Strategic Leadership for the Texas Elementary Principals and Supervisors Association (TEPSA). He's also served as an award-winning principal of a PreK-5th Grade campus of over 775 students in a rural town in Texas. Todd has written six books, including the runaway smash "Kids Deserve It" and his newest book "Building Authenticity: A Blueprint for the Leader Inside You." He has been recognized by the White House, John C Maxwell, the Center for Digital Education, National School Board Association, the BAMMYS, and others for his work in education and with children.
Todd: There's just so much beauty that comes from getting over our fear or nervousness or uncomfortableness with realizing, I don't have the answers, nor should I. Knowing that I'm asking my kids to learn every day because I have stuff to learn every day. And if you're not uncomfortable, you're not learning. Brandon: Hey everyone, hola a todos. I'm Brandon Cardet-Hernandez and you're listening to Leading Multilingual Learning, powered by Medly Learning. Each episode we're exploring the leadership, the ideas, and the insights shaping better education for multilingual learners. And today, I am very excited to welcome our guest, Todd Nesloni to the podcast. Todd is the director of Culture and Strategic Leadership for the Texas Elementary Principals and Supervisors Association, better known as TEPSA. He has also served as an award-winning principal of a pre-K through fifth grade campus of over 775 students in a rural town in Texas. Todd has written six books including the runaway smash, Kids Deserve It, and his newest book, Building Authenticity, a blueprint for the leader inside you. He has been recognized by the White House, by the Center for Digital Education, the National School Board Association, the BAMMYs, and more for his work in education and with young people. Welcome to the podcast. Todd: Hey, I am so excited to be here, Brandon. Thank you so much for having me. Brandon: So, for context too, I have followed Todd around the internet for a few years now, maybe more than a few years. I think we're getting old. And have just always really been impressed with what you're up to, the way you talk about kids, the way you think about the work, and really the way you amplify leadership. So, I'm glad we've been able to connect off of Instagram, LinkedIn, and all the other places we keep finding each other and commenting at one another. Todd: Hey, that's the joy of social media. We're able to build these really cool connections that we wouldn't necessarily have otherwise. Brandon: Yeah, when we spoke, I also had a moment where I realized I don't think we've met in real life. So this is great. I got to read your very impressive bio, and it's so nice to hear about obviously the work you've done as a school leader, the work you're doing now with TEPSA, and of course just your incredible work advocating for leaders and for young people. I'm curious, we have these bios we've got to do one paragraph at a time. What never makes it into your bio that you are really proud of? Todd: Well, I don't know if it's necessarily that I'm proud of, but I love that it's a part of who I am. And that is, as a young child, I participated in competitive rodeos. So I showed horses, I rode bulls. I did all that stuff before I decided that education was more the route for me. Brandon: I did not know it was coming, and I hope that for the show notes we can maybe have a picture of you bull riding as a young person. Todd: I can send it your way, for sure. Brandon: Okay, done. That's really cool. I feel like in sports and deep engagement activities, there's so much incredible leadership learning for kids. So while surprised, it also totally makes sense because I'm sure it's a place where you started to form as a leader. Todd: Oh, yeah. I mean, my mom was very much the mom of, you're going to be in all these things until you find what you love. Rodeoing was not quite it. Brandon: Awesome. I want to talk a little bit about two things. Well, one, for context, I love when we were talking a few weeks ago. I said, and I'm sharing this for our listeners, I said to Todd, if you know anyone in the multilingual learning space who I should be talking to, just let me know. And you were like, I led a school with a really high number of multilingual learners and a strategy around their growth. And so I realized, of course, this makes total sense. So I'm excited because one, I love anytime someone sees themselves as driving the work, and that is really you. And two, I'm excited to talk a little bit about how you thought about that leadership opportunity and supporting multilingual community. Todd: Yeah, and I'm also raising multilingual learners right now because my boys are being raised bilingual because my wife is Spanish speaking. So my mother-in-law lives with us and speaks no English. So we have a lot of Spanish going on in the house too. I could be better, I'll just admit that now. My boys know definitely more than I do, but I'm still learning. Brandon: I love this. This makes even more sense. So, let's dig in and talk about all of it. When you walked into Webb Elementary for the first time as principal, the school was struggling. You've talked about low morale, low test scores, high turnover, and the student body was half of whom were emergent bilingual students. So when you set out to rebuild the culture, how did you think about the school and making it feel like home for students and families who maybe didn't feel like the system was built for them? Todd: I think about the path that I personally had to figure out, coming with that mindset of, I don't see color, I don't see these things, and realizing all of the beauty that I was missing by having that mindset. And instead, making sure that I wanted to learn about these different cultures and languages. I wanted to learn more about how people were often feeling invisible and I didn't even realize it. And sometimes it was because of good intentions that was leading to that invisibility or that lack of communication or understanding or feeling like they were wanted in a space. And so for me, especially that first year of being an administrator, it was very much about, I need to be a learner in this situation. I need to see what have you not liked for years? What have you felt was set against you or done against you? And where do you feel like you do belong in places that you don't quite feel as comfortable in belonging? At the same time, making sure that my staff comes with that mindset too, because I can only do so much. And so we've all got to bring that mindset of how do we create these spaces where every kid feels like the most important person in the room at some point. And so that was really important for me to look at every element of our school: the way I communicated through text or phone calls, the signage that we had around the school, the pictures that we used, the photos that we were posting online and who was being featured more often than not, and just opportunities and did everybody have the same opportunity. And so it was really a lot of growth for me for sure, but it is one of the things I'm so proud of that we did at our school was really diving into that and not being afraid of that conversation. Brandon: It takes truly vulnerable leadership to shift that type of culture. And when I was a school leader as well, we did a lot of that mindset work. I'd also served as a turnaround principal. We weren't going to really move the needle if we didn't do some inventory around how we were thinking about the kids who were in front of us. But part of the magic is when we're doing it in parallel process with our educators. Talk to me about some of the small, daily things a school can do that signals to that student, you belong here, you matter here, you're seen, you're heard, your culture, your language has value. Todd: Well, for us, one of the first things was understanding that Spanish was a big language in our community, and it was completely disregarded unless it was viewed as a necessity for communication, instead of viewed as an always part of communication. And so one of the biggest things that we did was any sign that was around our school, whether it was welcoming them in, letting them know you got to have an ID to check in, or anything like that, everything had Spanish in the same size, same font as what we put in English. And so I kind of wanted to start with that messaging of, this language is just as important. There isn't one that's more important than the other, and we want you to understand that we value you just as much as we value English speakers. And we had Angela Maiers' You Matter Manifesto. That was a big part of our daily talk, our daily announcements, and we put it up real big on a wall. And one of the conversations I had after I saw it painted up there is I said, you know, if we're doing all of this in English and Spanish on all these signs, then this beautiful mural that has this wonderful saying that we repeat every day, let's put that in Spanish as well. And so there was the perfect spot for us to do it right underneath it. And I love being able to acknowledge the beauty in someone else's language for those who speak that language. But I also think it's just as important for those who do not speak that language to see that it's valued and it's beautiful and it's just as important as what you may know how to speak. And so that was really great for us because we didn't have, I know there's some schools that there's like, we have 35 languages. Like, Todd, we can't put a sign in 35 languages. I get that. And I know that those are little, little differences here and there between each campus. But for us, with the primary secondary language being Spanish, that was really important for me to let people know that I valued their language just as much as I valued the language I was speaking. Which also came into who I hired. I mean, it was very important for me to make sure that there was somebody on my administrative team who spoke the language that a large portion of our students spoke. I could have easily hired all English speakers who knew no Spanish. But I wanted to be able to not have to call somebody from the district to come down and translate things or to use a very unreliable AI tool or something like that. And so it was really important for me to find the right candidate who was also able to communicate easily and fluently with the families as they came in with concerns and needs and didn't feel like, well, there's nobody here who can understand that. It was important to me then, but now living with my mother-in-law who speaks no English and seeing the struggles she has with calling her doctor or calling somebody else and having to have my wife come and translate or do these things and seeing all these barriers that when the primary language is the language you speak, you don't realize some of those barriers that exist. And so even now today, I'm even more cognizant of how am I making sure that we can let these kids feel as important as anybody else on the campus. There isn't one group that's more important than another. And that goes with the hierarchy of a school too. The teachers are not more important than the instructional aides or the cafeteria staff or the maintenance. All of us are an integral role into the success of what we're trying to accomplish here. Brandon: It's really interesting to hear that. And I'm with you. I don't believe in universal solutions. So when we talk about our experience, it's this is what worked in my campus because of the conditions in which the environment created. And I think it's really important to name that around just the increase of visibility around Spanish language. It was doing two things, right? It's honoring the language, but it's also just being, this is the community. Half of our kids are emergent bilingual, that means there's another percentage who are not emergent bilingual but are multilingual without the classification. So really just being, this is the community we're in. And oftentimes in the systems that exist, the visibility around staff and administration and educators doesn't always reflect that same community. But it sounds like you were being really intentional about that too, all really important things to signal, you belong here, you matter here. Todd: And I will say too for those listening, it's not an easy task. And I don't want you to be listening and thinking, oh my gosh, I can't find a bilingual candidate to fill the position like you did. Because what I will say is there were times where, whether it was my front desk receptionist or a teacher, that I searched and searched for that dream candidate that I wanted in that position, but some years it just didn't work out that way. And so you do what you can with what you have. So I do want to be clear about that. It's not always, oh, I always found the perfect person that served every kid's needs. There were a lot of years where it was, this is the best person for right now and we're going to utilize every tool we have to be as successful as possible. Brandon: Yep, doing the best with what we got. That's what I always say. I see you. Okay, your school, Webb, is in a rural Texas town, not a big urban district with a large bilingual ed infrastructure. And a lot of rural and suburban schools are in the same position. Their student demographics have shifted dramatically maybe, but their systems haven't caught up. What did you learn at Webb about building culture in a school where the resources maybe didn't always match or the infrastructure for that programming didn't always match? Todd: My biggest reminder is that none of us are meant to do this education thing alone. I mean, even our connection here right now, we would not have met without social media. And so for me, when I think about being in a rural school and a place where there were sometimes opportunities for me to send my teachers to great professional development, and I really believe in the power of really good professional development and leaning on the experts in the area. But I think another resource that is not often tapped enough is the brilliance that exists in the everyday educator. And so there were often times where when we would have a curriculum deficiency or a personality issue with another person or just a not as strong grade-level team that year and they needed supports that I didn't know how to provide, I was very much the believer of, let me look within a 45 to 60 mile radius of my school and see if there's schools with populations that look similar to ours or that have strengths that we don't have. And then I had no shame calling up that administrator and being like, hey, you have no idea who I am. But I'm a principal 30 miles away from you, and we're having a really big issue with our kindergarten team and having them have the depth they need for the grade they're working with. So can they come shadow your kindergarten team for an hour and a half? And I'll give them half a day to drive over there, do all that, shadow, hang out with your team. And I will tell you, we were never turned down with that. And my teachers became obsessed with seeing real instruction happening in real time with staff who look like them, schools who look like them, and kids who look like them. And it was really, really powerful. And what I would say, even if you're like, well, we don't really have super strong schools around us. Great. There's something to be learned from that as well. I can go into any teacher's classroom in the world, in 10 minutes walk away with stuff. And whether it's stuff I definitely do not want to repeat or stuff that I'm like, I want to use this immediately. But I think there's always something to learn and I think we miss that. Or sometimes we're afraid to ask if we can hop in. And I had to tell some administrators, look, I'm not trying to poach any people. I'm not trying to steal anything. Your people are welcome to come to our campus and check things out. I just really need some support and I've heard great things about what your campus is doing and I'd love to just have a glimpse in that. And people are just so open and welcoming to that kind of positivity and let's learn from each other. And then what it also does is it lets me see curriculums we don't have, to go, oh, that one was amazing. We need that, instead of spending money on something that doesn't end up behaving the way we anticipated it to. Brandon: Listen, I wake up thinking about education, I go to bed thinking about education. It's all I really want to talk about. And I don't think I'd ever heard this idea of just calling another school. It sounds so simple, Todd. Calling another school and being like, can I come for a visit? I think many of us are like, okay, particularly principals and school leaders and educators too, it's across the spectrum. Are you in my PLC? Do we have a district-to-district partnership? Is it some structured way of doing intervisitation versus something that's kind of magical, which is just, hey, I want to check this out. And I love this idea too. You will always walk away with something. It may be something you don't want to do. It may be a mirror into something you're doing that you want to double down on or you want to not do, right? And it also may be a new strategy. I think we need more of that, just the cold call of, can I come check out what's happening in your community? Todd: Well, hey, and the best part of it is, with funding being cut from everything as we turn around, this is free. So I mean, you get great PD for free. And it often times what I would have come out of it is my teachers would have strong connections with people that they had never met or maybe would not meet otherwise, that now they have this other teacher they can email or call whenever they want with additional ideas and resources. And there's just so much beauty that comes from this getting over our fear or nervousness or uncomfortableness with realizing I don't have the answers, nor should I. It is all about knowing that I'm asking my kids to learn every day because I have stuff to learn every day. Brandon: I see you. I really see you. It makes sense how you were able to innovate in your community. You're not allowing resources to be the constraint. And you're like, we'll get this done in whatever way we need to. I want to talk with you, I'm going to shift gears because I want to talk a little bit about family engagement. I typically hate this word because I think it's really reductive and I think it's become jargon and no one really knows what we're talking about anymore. We're now just looking for a participation number versus an impact number. But you have really challenged educators to stop making excuses for that low engagement and to start looking at what the school is doing or not doing. In your school, a school like Webb, or just what you've seen in the field, where a significant number of families speak Spanish at home, what did genuine engagement look like versus the kind of engagement that checks the compliance box? Todd: You know, I'm so much of that belief that an excuse is an easy way out of saying I don't want to do something because all day long we can say we don't have the money, the resources, the people. And most of the time that's true. We don't have the money, we don't have the resources, we don't have the people. But if I'm super passionate about it, I'm going to find another way to get the money. I'm going to find another way to utilize people and things like that. And so for me, I will never forget one of my proudest and most embarrassing moments all happened all together. Because we tried to do this event called Watch DOGS, which is this nationally based program that seeks to get men more involved in kids' education. And so we went to this training, we loved the idea. We were like, let's do this huge kickoff event. I mean, I've got almost 800 students. So our goal is like 150, 200, 300 people show up. And we did this big kickoff, provided food, did all the things that they tell you to do when you have an event for families. And we had two men show up with kids. And it was so embarrassing because I had like a hundred pizzas and all this stuff. And these two people showed up. And so I left that, and I'm very much of a reflective, what can I learn from this? I'm not going to let this destroy me, but I am going to learn and know that I'm probably part of the reason it didn't work. And so in talking with my team, I was like, what are we doing wrong? And I said, well, you know what, we can sit in this room all day and talk, or we can go out to people and figure out what's going on. And when I went out to families to talk about, why aren't y'all coming to stuff? What can we do differently? All these things, I really learned some really big lessons. I had never taken into consideration that families weren't coming because they didn't have clean clothes or because they didn't have a working vehicle. I just assumed our school is in the middle of the community, you'll find a way to get there if it's that important to you. I had never taken into consideration the multiple jobs that many of our families have and how regardless of how much they want to be at that event, food on the table is more important at the end of the day. But one of the things that I had never really taken into consideration either was just this idea of, I don't want to come to something where you're just going to tell me what to do differently. That was really eye-opening for me. And many of the families had said that they don't come to events because their school experience was super negative. And being back in that campus is just, it's painful. And so I said, you know what, then instead of having this event that seeks to get these men involved in schools, I know the research that is out there about a male role model. Now that's not to denigrate the importance of a female role model at all. I think any positive adult in a child's life is great. But there is a lot of research, especially in elementary age lives, of the power of a male role model. And I said, you know what? There are men involved in these kids' life in some capacity even if they're not showing up at school. So instead of having this event to convince them to be more involved, let me just do an event that celebrates them and just seeks to say thank you for just existing in this child's life. And what we found happened was we went from what I consider a failure of two attendees to an annual attendance of over 600 men and kids who showed up. And in all of my experience in education, that is probably one of the coolest moments in my career was to walk into a room of men who showed up for kids, whether they were the children's minister, the neighbor, the grandfather, the brother who was only a year older than the kid. Whatever it was, to be in that space and see that they were there not to be lectured, not to be told ways to do it differently. They were there for us as a school to say, we are just so thankful that this child has you. And that was a very, like I said, emotional and powerful moment for me and very instrumental in me saying, this is this is like the secret sauce for us as a school. If I can get people to feel a certain way about us as a campus, they'll naturally want to be more supportive or more involved or whatever it looks like for that family. And so that was a really cool, just one experience of us. And then the other that I'll share quickly is we really had to identify that regardless of all the incentives we offered and things that we would provide for families to be at events at school, some families just couldn't or wouldn't be on campus. So instead, we did events, school-wide events, whether we did a block party or a hot dog cookout or a program, off campus in areas of our community where large student populations existed and to say, hey, you may not be able to come to our school, but 18 blocks over, we're going to have this program here. If you can make it, awesome. We'd love to have you. And it took a little bit more planning and organization on our end and some creativity with sponsors and things like that to make it happen. But it was beautiful to watch families be part of things that who had never been before. I love thinking about how can we do it differently, and even when it fails, because it will fail many times. Brandon: Listen, you have to fail. And what you chose not to do was to move into the mindset which we see sometimes in our space, which is, these families don't care about their kids, or they don't care about our kids. And you actually did the inward thinking, which really goes back to what we were talking about at the top of our conversation, which is, okay, what do I need to do differently? What am I not seeing here? I do have one follow-up question here. Tell me what activities were in this celebration of role models or male figures. One, what was the event called, but also were there activities? Was it a field day? Was it awards? What was happening there? Tell me a little bit about the space and help our audience think about that too. Todd: We called it Dinner with a Gentleman, and we did have a catered meal. We had started with barbecue brisket because we're in Texas, and if barbecue can't get you there, ain't nothing going to get you there in our mindset. And so we had done that in the hopes of reaching like a hundred people. When it ballooned to over 600 RSVPs, I was like, we can't afford brisket anymore. So we're moving to burgers. So but we provided a meal with burgers and stuff, and then I contacted Scholastic and worked with them and got a bunch of books. So that way your exit gift from us as a campus was that every single person that came to this event, every man, would leave with a book. So to say, here's how you can continue the relationship with the child you brought even after this event. Here's a free book on us that you can experience with them. And I had a table full of a variety of titles in different languages, so you pick what fits you. We didn't just do the one book for everybody kind of thing, because I'm very against that when it comes to reading, but that's a whole other thing. But anyway, and then I knew you cannot put a bunch of men in a room with kids who may not always have that experience of being with them and expect them to know what to do. I don't ever want to take for granted and have people be like, I'm never coming to that again. It was so uncomfortable. I didn't know what to do. So we always had activities that were built around the theme. So one year, our dinner with the gentleman was under construction. And so we had a whole station set up with all these carpentry tools that we had somebody from the community there to help the men help the kids like hammer nails and and do all this kind of stuff. And then we had an art station, and then we had little board games. So you could kind of find what fits your personality, but also try out some new things. We would have a photo booth. And then I contacted a bunch of local business owners to say, hey, a bunch of men in this community are about to get together, can you provide gift cards? And so throughout the event, we'd be throwing out gift cards to different things. And then I always brought in a guest speaker who spoke for no more than 10 minutes. I didn't want it to be a lecture, I didn't want it to be anything big. I wanted to have somebody that could hold some respect, but also bring a beautiful point of view. And again, to make it very celebratory. And so I was like, you got 10 minutes or less, I need you to get up there, I need you to pump these guys up and the kids that are there with them, and then just let them be. And so you could come and go as much as you wanted, you didn't have to stay there the whole time. Again, it's all about comfort level and not making anybody feel bad or even if I only have 10 minutes. Okay, great, show up for 10 minutes. We will love that. And so it was just, it was a very beautiful thing. We were very cognizant of the title too, because I really try to push administrators' thinkings with the titles they call things because I think often times just the title alone is exclusionary. And so we didn't want to use the word dads or fathers or anything like that because especially in any community right now, there's so many people involved in that child's life who don't have that given title of mom or dad but still play the role. And so I think that was really important to us as well. Brandon: I have limited time, I want to do something with my kid. What you created was an opportunity to let's all be together and do something as a community. I appreciate that. As someone who grew up in a pretty non-traditional home, I have lots of early memories—my dad passed away when I was a kid—but I have lots of early memories of these dad things in schools. And it doesn't mean we have to oversimplify language, sometimes it is about a dad, but there were these moments as a kid where I remember feeling like I don't fit in here, even if there were other important men in my life. So I see you. Okay, I want to talk about something else and I'm looking at my clock and I'm getting nervous because I really want to have this conversation with you. You spoke about reading, giving the book, not one book for every single student. You and I are both aligned here. I learned that you created the Secret Society of Readers and a book prom as part of your leadership at Webb, really to build a reading culture. So in a school where many students are developing literacy in two languages at once or emerging in their English language development, how did you make sure… tell us a little bit about those programs so we can get an idea of some of the creativity around building that love for reading, but also tell us how you were thinking about English language learners in it as well. Todd: So I got to give the main credit to my librarian, Kathy French. She is the brain behind this. I'm of that Steve Jobs belief that you hire people smarter than you, so that way they help raise every ship. And so I definitely supported her and provided her the resources, but this is her brain child, so I do want to make sure I give her credit. But I will say, we knew that we had a literacy, a love of literacy issue, which then plays into every other piece of what we're doing. And so she said, you know, all we do is talk about the deficiencies of where we are as a campus. She said, but Todd, I still see kids here and there reading or in love with a book. And so I don't want to discredit those kids too by us just being like, we have to do all this work. And she said, so I want to start small. I want to start this Secret Society of Readers. So she created like this Willy Wonka golden type ticket, and she secretly would pass it out to kids when she saw them with a book at lunch or unexpected moments and things like that. And all it said was, you've been invited to join the Secret Society of Readers. Tell no one. But every Friday at like 8:45 a.m., a little noise would come on the announcements. And all the staff knew what the noise meant, but the kids had no idea. But as soon as that noise went off, those secret society people, they knew, oh, I got to go up to my teacher, I got to say this code word, and that's my exit to go to the library. So they would sneak down to the library, all the lights would be off, they'd grab a flashlight when they went in there, and they'd go underneath the library tables and talk with the librarian and the other other secret society members about what book they were currently reading. And it was a mixture of preschoolers all the way up to our fifth grade, that was the the grade bands in our campus. And so we didn't separate them out, we let them be in there all together. And then after it was done, they would leave and go back to class. And so as we did that, and my librarian was like having so much fun with it, you know, we're elementary, she's like, you know, we got to have a culminating event. Like we need to have something special to end the year with. And she said, I have this idea. I want to do a book prom. And I was like, I'm already obsessed. Let's take it and run with it. And so what she did was she invited all the Secret Society members and their families and community members to come to a book prom. And the invitation said, the only rule is the bouncer will not let you in if you do not have a date. Now your date is your favorite book you read that year. So that's the date you must bring. And we had a red carpet, we had a DJ, we did food, we had a photo booth, we had all this stuff. And all the kids and their families brought books. And you know, some parents you got to flip the book backwards because it really isn't one that we wanted to advertise, but they brought a book. And so that was during the height of 50 Shades of Grey, so we had a couple of that show up that we had to turn around and be like, we've got another book, thank you. Um, and then as the book prom went on, the kids each introduced their date to the crowd, and then the crowd voted on the prom king and the prom queen, which was not a child that won, but a book that won. And so then what we would do is on the next day on the announcements, we would say, hey, there was a prom last night, all these books were there, and these two books were announced as the prom king and prom queen. We bought a bunch of extra copies. If you want to check it out because everybody's talking about it, stop by the office. We'll let you borrow a copy of ours in the office. And so it built this anticipation, this excitement, this exclusivity, this, oh my gosh, I got to have that if everybody's talking about it. It was just a fun way to celebrate the kids who already love reading, but also potentially bring in some newbies into that. So often we focus on, how do we get them to love it? How do we do this? How do we do that? That we forget those who are already doing it well. And then they fall by the wayside or feel invisible and not as important. Which is just like what we talked about at the beginning when it comes to language. And so I think that having that perspective, again, was a part of my journey and growth for my librarian to open that up to me to go, you're right. These kids should be celebrated for doing great things while we also focus on getting the other kids where we want them to be, but we don't forget the ones who are already doing it right. Brandon: Yeah, and there's kids across all language profiles in that space, so it creates a visibility as well. I love this. I feel like your team ripped the playbook from some smart marketing, comms strategist, and you're like, we will build this, we will shift behavior through exclusivity. And what a great way of using that strategy. It sounds really fun, too. Todd: Oh, it was a blast. And it grew into being a much larger thing than it started out with. After about a year or two of this, they couldn't meet under the tables anymore because the Secret Society was getting so large, and they were bringing in guest speakers to talk to the kids and all these things. But it was just a beautiful fun experience that it was never also viewed as one more thing on someone's plate. Because my librarian brought in a special ed teacher and instructional aide who were just as obsessed with it as she was, and they ran the whole thing and loved it. So it wasn't anything I was additionally asking teachers to do. The most I ask a teacher to do was, let me have this kid for 20 minutes. That's all I need is once a week, 20 minutes, to let them be with other readers who are just as obsessed as they are. And so it was a beautiful thing. Brandon: That's super. I really love this. Alright, I'm going to move on to one of my last questions, and it's about one of your books, When Kids Lead. This book really talks about giving students real ownership and voice in their school. At Webb, that included student ambassadors, social media interns, and morning meetings. Talk a little bit about that leadership journey that you created for students, but also talk to me a little bit about how you made sure it was accessible for students who were still developing their English language. Todd: So, my co-author Adam Dovico and I are both really big believers that every single person on that campus is a leader. And oftentimes, those kids who haven't been given opportunities to lead, it's not because they can't. And so we wanted to create a resource that everybody could look at and say, look, your most misbehaving kids can lead, your super introverted kids can lead, your super extroverted kids, your multilingual learners, like all of these can lead and it will look different and that's okay. It's all about giving them opportunities, pushing them outside their comfort zone in a way that doesn't push them to the limit, but in a way that helps them learn and grow. And so, this is a lot of work. I will say, this whole idea of every kid can lead takes a lot of work to convince everybody on your campus to also believe that. And I know that sounds crazy when you're like, but they're all educators. It doesn't matter. There are some people who will firmly believe because that child makes this decision every day, they should never be put in that position. Because that child doesn't speak the language we need them to, they should not be put in this position. And I think there's so many ways that you can utilize kids and give them an opportunity where they can feel empowerment and feel success that then pushes them to want to be even better and find new avenues of enjoyment and excitement that they may have never seen otherwise. And so I know a lot we've talked about today in this conversation is about kids who speak different languages, whether that's multiple languages or one that's very different than yours. And I think even in those situations, there are ways to involve them. Even just their presence and being allowed to stand with the child. Like, one example I'll give is we had student ambassadors who would give tours to incoming students or to families who were considering enrolling their kids at our campus. I was very much of the believer that that's not my tour to give, that's my students' tour to give because they live and breathe this, they are the best people to show you around and talk about things. And so a lot of that was me training them over the things we want to talk about, but then also utilizing all sorts of students in that environment. And so whether it was a kid who was always in trouble and me utilizing this as a carrot on a stick to say, I want to use you to show off this school, or for me to say, you know what, hey, I know you're you're amazing at these tours. I'm going to bring this person in here who's not as strong, who I see potential in, but they just need to see you do it and have you support them and give them little moments where they can point out something or they can say something. And even if it's a kid who only gets one sentence in the entire tour, for some kids, that is like life-changing for them because they've never been given an opportunity to speak to someone else as a knowledgeable participant or to be empowered enough through the practice and things like that. So I think there's so much power in allowing kids to lead, even though they will make mistakes, and so will all the adults. And they will break things, and so will all the adults. And they will say the wrong thing, and so will the adults. So it's not even an issue of age or capability. Every human will make those same mistakes. And when you shift that mindset of looking at it as potential instead of as all the things that tell me you shouldn't be leading in this way or that way, I think begins to help you see that, oh, I can use them in here this. And it's even more exciting because when we just to use these tours as an example, there are multilingual families who come for the tour. And so when I'm meeting them to say, let me go grab some kids, and then they'll say, oh, yeah, and you know, we speak this language in the home. I'm like, oh, great. I actually have a kid. And then so when I pull the kid, I'll tell them, talk in your native language. Feel free to speak whatever you're comfortable doing. This family speaks both. So you can take it and run with this however you want to. And there's so many moments where they're like, what? Really? Like I can… Yeah. Take it, run with it. I trust you. Just come find me at the end and I'll wrap everything up for y'all. Um, and so a lot of the kids too, seeing that an adult trusts them enough to say, take and run with this, it really helps them find strength in themselves they may not have seen otherwise. Brandon: It's a way of really helping us see language as an asset too, that there's leadership in this skill that you have. And I'm glad as an elementary school principal that they're getting that experience so early with you. And I'm also really glad that there's so many principals now across Texas who are able to learn with you and from you now that you're doing this work with the Texas Elementary Principals and Supervisors Association. Okay, before I let you go, there's always one question we like to end with. And I've had a blast, so thank you again. We're in parallel process. We are lifelong learners, but we're also in the world of creating learning opportunities for other people. Tell me who you're learning from right now or something you're learning about right now. Todd: Well, you know, I'm raising twin five-year-old boys with my wife, so there's a lot of learning that is still happening there. Um, but I you know, I always look at my life as I want so much to understand and learn from things I haven't experienced or that I've done poorly. And so I love connecting with people who come from totally different walks of life than me, who have polar opposite views, religion, politics, life, whatever. And I love just spending time with them because I think there's so much to be gathered from the experience of others. And I feel like it makes me a better person and it lets me be more reflective, but also there's been so many things that I've been able to introduce my own children to that I'm like, I want you to experience this because I didn't as a kid. And I can see some biases or beliefs that it put in me. And I want to make sure that you see this is beautiful and that you see this as an opportunity and that you see this as a person or or idea you can learn from, even if you don't agree, even if you even if you don't like it. Like we're going to we're going to try it out, we're going to do these things. And so I think for me it's always an aspect of what makes me uncomfortable. Because I tell people all the time, if you're not uncomfortable, you're not learning. So for me it's if I'm not uncomfortable, I need to go do something else or be a part of something else. I'm just always trying to push myself knowing I'm never quite the person I want to be, and there's always growth to happen. And so what do I want to work on today? Brandon: I think that is a wonderful framework to hold and a really nice thought to leave our listeners with today. So thank you again, Todd, for your work, for spending your time with us, and it's been a real pleasure to get to have this conversation with you. Todd: Thanks for having me, Brandon. Brandon: All right, and thanks everyone for listening to this episode. And we'll see you next time on Leading Multilingual Learning, powered by Medly Learning.